Is this a good or great place to have a competition?(Francisco Grande, Casa Grande, Arizona)

Is the Francisco Grande Golf Resort a good place to hold a hang gliding meet? I think so, but it takes a whole bunch of pilots thinking so to make for a well attended competition.

First off it is a great idea to hold a hang gliding meet at a small resort so that everyone can be together and socialize with everyone else before and after the tasks. Everyone stays at the hotel (with a reduced room rate), and eats and drinks at the restaurant and bar. This makes for a lively community.

Last year we had free broad band access at the hotel. This year they charged $10/day. Bad move on their part. Next year they say they will provide free high speed internet access. We need fast access for scoring and for weather forecasting, as well as for pilot access. I had my trailer down the road with slower (3G) internet access, which slowed down and impaired my weather forecasting.

The grass in the desert makes for a great place to setup the gliders and tugs. Shade from the trees, the hot tub and the pool all make for better pilot attitudes.

The launch area is just to the west of the resort. This brings about a few problems with pilot attitudes. If you land at the resort (which we try to do), you have a bit of a walk through the golf course to get to the launch area. This can be a hassle. There is a big field closer to the setup area at the hotel, and it would be better to launch there, but it is downwind of the trees on the golf course and smaller than the field to the west.

The launch field is dusty, due to the fact that we break the hard surface by driving our cars on the field, or landing our tugs on the "runway." The meet organizers put down lots of water on the runway and after getting this working well, they kept the dust down to a reasonable level. But before that the dust was discouraging especially when the wind was blowing it.

The dust got into everything and we were cleaning, spraying, and waxing our harness zippers. I kept cleaning the Wills Wing T2C. It will take a while to get my truck back into shape, along with the interior of my trailer.

Dustin says that the hotel is willing to come up with some methods of significantly reducing the dust in the launch area. This both needs to be done and pilots who might want to come next year need to be reassured that in fact the dust is no longer a big issue. I'd like to see a combination of methods. I'll be reporting on this in the future and will reassure pilots if in fact the hotel has solved this problem.

The flying in this area is not particularly strong and consistent, and the task committee (including me) fell down on the job by calling tasks that were a little too long. But the flying was pleasant and certainly consistent and strong enough to be a fair test of pilot skills. It was roughly on a par with flying in Florida (without the cu's, but dust devils instead), with higher altitudes and often stronger lift. It was not as consistent, as high, or as strong as Big Spring.

You can land almost any where and there was only one time that I had to abort from a low save because I couldn't have a safe landing.

There was a bit too much wind, and this was apparently abnormal for this time of year. We want less wind so that we can come back to the resort and celebrate our flying.

I look forward to going back to the Francisco Grande next year. I can see a number of improvements that we can make to make it more enjoyable for pilots. We need to have a location to put up paper copies of the scores, for example. (The latest versions were always on line, but with the high fees for internet access this was not so available to pilots.) Better internet access would also make for better weather forecasting. Downloading in the bar was a good idea (for the pilots and the bar), but we need a better table setup there.

Davis,
I appreciate your objective assessment of the pros vs. cons at Santa Cruz, and have some thoughts of my own I'd like to share.

When I spend the time and money to attend a comp, I'm looking for airtime, miles, consistent flying conditions, and a nice venue to spend time at. (even one that's appropriate to bring my wife to)

Santa Cruz fulfills all of those parameters.

In 2007 we flew 7 out of 7 days. I personally flew 355miles and got 23+ hours of airtime. It was a pleasure to fly out and returns each day and enjoy margaritas and the pool after making goal.

In 2008 we flew 6 out of 7 days. We could have flown everyday, (the rigids did), but pilots grumbled about the wind and a day was called off. (If those same conditions existed in Forbes, we'd have flown) This year, I personally flew 300+ miles despite falling down early on a day and 20+ hours of airtime.

The flying around Casa Grande is good! The flying is Big Spring is better, but BS is a place I'd never consider bringing my wife. The flying in Florida is comparable.

How about the venue?

The Francisco Grande Resort is the most pleasant place I've stayed in any HG comp. The amenities are wonderful. How about enjoying a $6.50 golfers breakfast with linen napkins and silver on the patio overlooking your glider and the pool? http://hang6.blogspot.com/2007/05/santa-cruz-flats-day-2-should-could.html Here's Scott Gravelle in 07' enjoying a pleasant morning. After a day of flying, there's a nicely appointed bar next to the pool and hot tub. Lunch or dinner at the bar or restaurant is good as well. The town of Casa Grande is five miles away filled with other restaurants and grocery stores.

I love the meets at Quest, but I'd say the Resort tops it. I can stay in a nice room, set up my glider just out the door on grass, and the pool, bar, restaurant are feet away. If you're keen to golf or hit a bucket of balls, it's 100 yards further. Because everyone is in such close proximity, it's easy to be social in the bar, pool, or backyard. http://hang6.blogspot.com/2007/05/jamies-photos-from-our-desert-oasis.html

So - let's talk about the negatives:

The walk across the golf course to launch. We have to hump our gliders a comparable distance at Quest or Big Spring. It takes just over ten minutes to hike your glider to launch at the resort. You can secure a cart if you make an effort. Or you can just drive out and set up in the dirt. (if the dust issue is fixed, setting up at launch would be fine)

Wireless: Yes. Last year was great. This year I didn't pay for wireless once. Free wireless is mandatory next year.

Which leaves the dust issue - The dust is the biggest negative to the flying. I didn't like it, but it's manageable with a bit of carpet under your harness and some care. I think the dust issue must be addressed before next year. If dust abatement is successful, the place will be perfect.

The "wife" factor. It was a pleasure to have my wife with me this year. The comfortable room kept her happy and the great pool, hot tub, bar and restaurant kept her entertained. The closed tasks didn't tax her retrieve patience. The longest drive we had after a task was just over an hour.

If Dustin keeps putting the meet on, I'll keep coming. It's the most comfortable and fun meet of the year for me. Fix the dust, add a sport class, free wireless, and it's HG nirvana.

Here are some links to last year's photos, and check http://hang6.blogspot.com for this year's account.

http://hang6.blogspot.com/2007/05/santa-cruz-flats-day-4-i-play-bad-start.html

http://hang6.blogspot.com/2007/05/santa-cruz-flats-day-5-five-hour-bar.html

http://hang6.blogspot.com/2007/05/santa-cruz-flats-day-6-day-for-survival.html

Cheers,
Jeff O'Brien

Thanks so much for your very thoughtful response. I think that you have put the issues that I raised in a proper perspective.

Both Dustin and Jamie have arrived back at Quest Air. They want very much to do the SCFR next year (and perhaps a Flytec meet here at Quest). They are looking for sponsorship (there is no money made on this meet and we could use a few more facilities). It sure looks like the hotel will work something out re the dust at a reasonable cost.

For the meet to work there would need to be 60 pilots or more next year. Jamie is going to email all the pilots who went this year to see what they want.

I would love to find someone who has some idea of how to approach a potential sponsor (on the level of Red Bull) provide a helping hand. I, of course, will do my best to promote the meet for next year.

Like you and Jeff have outlined, this meet was very enjoyable and for the pilots that live on the gold coast, close enough that it isn't a chore to drive to the meet. A few years ago the Kagel crew brought 9 pilots to Big Spring, and then the next year we had a good showing up at Woodrat for the Hang On meet. Both of these meets were 10 hours away or more when driving. Gas prices being the way they are, I think having a meet in Arizona just makes good financial sense.

When we returned to Sylmar this year after attending the SCFR meet, Phill Bloom, Greg Kendall, and myself talked it up pretty big. I know after talking with Chris Smith last year I was totally on board to attend this year.

I'm thinking that the publicity of this event will nearly guarantee a full house next year if the dust issue is settled. I'll bet the Kagelites will bring many more pilots next year.

Now if I can just beat Chris Smith in reserving the room they got this year, I'll be winning

I'm new to comps, but for me it was a great place. My wife came for the first few days and really enjoyed it. She even said she would go to other comps with me. She thinks they're all at luxury golf resorts.

The best marketing is grass roots word of mouth one on one markleting. You liked it. You vouch for it. You tell your friends that they should come. That's what we need.

Our job is to make sure we get the dust dealt with, which I believe that we can.

Davis:

Our job is to make sure we get the dust dealt with, which I believe that we can.

Noone has mentioned calcium, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_chloride A few bags sprinkled on the dust and a few waterings and the dust is gone. It depends on rain but usually lasts a few months. I forget the cost but $30 a 50#bag rings a bell. I use it for dust, used to spray cherries with it and now use it for the brine in rink floors. Very common stuff. Most towns have a service that will premix the calcium and spray whatever you want for a fee. Might not be quite as good as used oil but the environmentalists will nail you if they see that nowadays.

Figured I'd do my part and help a good cause.

As long as the financial gods smile on me I going back next year dust and all.
(I spent 4 hrs with a vacuum and air hose cleaning my harness and I'd do it again)

De 1
Derreck

Just how much does this comp cost all in all..roughly.