Oz Report

Volume 10, Number 83
Thursday, Apr 20 2006
Florida Ridge, Clewiston, FL, USA
http://OzReport.com
"Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore."

to Table of Contentsto next topic The Flytec Championship, day 4, task 3

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Wed, Apr 19 2006, 6:36:08 pm EDT

We under call the day, as the day was much better than it looked like in the morning.N28°31.982',  W081°50.800', Quest Air(Quest Air)

Scores

The flight and the task on the HOLC and on Google Earth.

The sky is totally covered with cumulus clouds in the morning and Jonnie thinks that we can't even call a task.  The forecast says different.  It says that the stalled front over us will go off to the northeast and a high will build over us with light winds.  The lift is forecasted to be strong to 4,500'.

We call a 60 mile sort of triangle task for the flex wings and a 70 mile sort of a triangle task for the rigid wings, both to the south.  We send the flexies around counter clockwise and the rigids clockwise to the intersection of I4 and highway 27, south down 27 10 miles to an intersection surrounded by lakes, then west northwest to Fantasy of Flight and then home north to Quest up highway 33.

The flexies have to go straight south to Fantasy of Flight then east to the intersection of I4 and highway 27, then north to the intersection of 474 and 27, then northwest back to Quest.  With little or no wind there should be no worries about getting downwind.  We want to keep everyone away from certainb landing fields that have caused problems lately.

We launch at 12:30 with our first start window at 1 PM and only a 5 kilometer radius start circle.  By 12:40 most of us rigid wing pilots are at cloud base wondering how to spend the next twenty minutes.  We do work our way over to the edge of the start circle, staying at cloud base, and everyone takes the first clock.  Almost everyone is together at cloud base.

We all pretty much stay together leaving the thermals when we get too close to the cloud until we get to highway 474.  I work some weak lift to the east a bit while Ollie in front pulls a few folks over to my west.  More peel off to him when they find the lift I'm in weak and I decide to push further east toward highway 27 where I think that the lift will be stronger and more consistent. Highway 27 is on the Florida Ridge, the high spots in Florida.

Jacques, Johann and Russell go with me as we quickly work our way down the highway hitting lift under most of the clouds and looking for the big one.  We get to 4,000' just before our first turnpoint so things are looking pretty good. When we get to the turnpoint there are the guys we left behind at 474, and now the nine of us are together again and will be for the rest of the flight.

We head ten miles further south to the next turnpoint finding strong lift to 4,400' wondering if all this good lift is going to be spoiled by all the lakes. Getting high just before the turnpoint we have to jump across a good sized lake to the northwest but there are clouds every where and we find lift just on the other side of the lake. 

A few pilots find better lift just behind us over the lake and this will catch them up and let them get a little ahead of Johann, Ollie, Paul, and I.  We have to keep moving hoping for better lift but trying to stay with the few guys out in front.  Just as we get a few miles east of Fantasy of Flight we climb out at 500 fpm to 4,700'.  That will bring us back together almost.

As we make the turnpoint suddenly it feels like we are the dart board in a dart's tournament as these little pointy things start coming at us fast.  We've run into the flex wings as they make their first turnpoint at Fantasy.  It looks like they will do us little good finding thermals on the way home up 33.

We work our way north finding weak broken lift, nothing that gets me out of the little hole that I'm in a bit behind the other gliders.  It's not until we get just south of the Seminole sailplane port that we find something that I'm really happy to be turning in (600 fpm).  Ten miles out it looks like we've got a final glide from 4,200' to goal at Quest with a 5 mph west wind on our left side.

I'll take one more two minute 500 fpm climb on the way in, but all nine of us make it into goal within a couple of minutes of each other.  Every rigid wing but one will make it to goal, and Mark StumpMark Stump will land close to goal.

The flex wings will pound it out on their task and many will make goal also, although not in one big gaggle like the rigid wings.  You can see the results at the link above (later on Wednesday evening).

We did the task in about 2 hours and 15 minutes, quite a bit less than three hours, our nominal time.  The fastest flex wings appear to have done their task in less than two and a half hours, their nominal time.



Flying with the locals.

Discuss Flytec, day 4 at the Oz Report forum

to Table of Contentsto next topic Flytec - the blogs

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Wed, Apr 19 2006, 6:36:45 pm EDT

Other commentatorsN28°31.982', W081°50.800', Quest Ai(Quest Ai)

You'll find other views of events here: http://jonnydurand.blogspot.com/, http://bretthazlett.blogspot.com/, http://xckevin.blogspot.com/, http://www.naughtylawyertravels.blogspot.com/, http://skyout.blogspot.com/, http://fly.benyl.com, http://events.dowsett.ca/, http://www.karicastle.com/blog/http://hang6.blogspot.com, http://drelectron.blogspot.com

Discuss Blogs at the Oz Report forum

to Table of Contentsto next topic World Record Encampment

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Wed, Apr 19 2006, 6:36:59 pm EDT

Yesterday, Zapata was 105 degrees 26°58'7.63"N,  99°14'47.72"W, Zapata(Zapata)

Will it get back to the 113 degrees that we experienced in 2000?

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/data/obhistory/MMNL.html

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ifps/MapClick.php?CityName=Zapata&state=TX&site=BRO

Discuss WRE at the Oz Report forum

to Table of Contentsto next topic Donating an Easy Riser

Wed, Apr 19 2006, 7:30:28 pm EDT

Or Rider?

Jayne DePanfilisJayne DePanfilis <jayne>  writes:

Margaret Johnson contacted the USHPA office a few days ago to determine if we could help her and her husband find a new home for their Easy Rider glider.  They used to be members of the association.  They want to donate an "original" Easy Rider glider to someone.  I put her in touch with Ken Derussy but apparently, he couldn't help. 

Michelle offered to list the glider in the classified section of the USHPA website but I'm afraid it won't be seen there.  Publishing a notice in the July issue of the magazine won't work for them because they're moving at the end of May. 

Margaret writes:

"Would like to donate to a museum or school, an Easy Rider hang glider built in 1975.  It is in good condition and is located in central Texas.  It is an "original." Easy Rider with wings made out of foam and wood.  Later versions of the glider were made with all-aluminum ribs.  We are moving approx.  May 31, 2006 so please call 325-372-5421 or cell: 320-699-0186.

This is a time sensitive announcement for the owners of the glider because they will be moving and hope to find a new home for the glider before they move.

Let me know.  Margaret doesn't have email so I agreed to call her if you agreed to include the information in an upcoming issue of the Oz Report.  I really enjoyed talking with her.

Discuss Easy Riser at the Oz Report forum

to Table of Contentsto next topic GAP parameters

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Wed, Apr 19 2006, 9:45:23 pm EDT

The hubbub calms downN28°31.982', W081°50.800', Quest Air(Quest Air)

http://ozreport.com/10.075#2

Once you are use to getting A's, it's a shock to get a C.  The cry for all A's (we're all above average) continued through the first two days of the Flytec meet, but has died down now.  I don't see a great disappointment with the GAP parameters as set here at the Flytec meet, but maybe there are some that continue to harbor resentment.  But I think that in general we are having such a great time that it is hard to really be upset about a few meaningless points.

I did notice that Jonnie thought I was responsible for the GAP parameters for flex wings at the Flytec meet.  Since I'm not, I wonder how he got this information.  I am responsible for the GAP parameters for the rigid wings.  I suggested to David 75 miles and 3 hours after consulting with Ron GleasonRon Gleason and Jim YocomJim Yocom.

Here's my response to Brett HazlettBrett Hazlett's complaints:

Here's what the GAP authors say (in red, and Brett in blue):

NominalTime: equivalent in time to NominalDistance.  It is the fastest elapsed time, below which the task should be devalued.  It can be considered as the time necessary for the fastest pilot to fly the NominalDistance.  (In the Alps for National competitions, it is generally suggested at least 2 hours).  There is no penalty for having the fastest pilot take longer to complete the task.

I consider 25 mph to be the actual average speed of the winning pilot.  The GAP authors recommend a minimum time of 2 hours.  That corresponds to fifty miles.  Set the minimum at 2.5 hours and that corresponds to 62.5 miles.

To get a fair competition task, you should normally have pilots in goal and pilots need to be in the air for a period of time so that the competitors make a series of different decisions, thereby sorting out the best pilots from the good ones.

Set nominal task distance at 30 miles and assume 25 mph, and you get a task that is a little more than an hour, like the two days of flying at the Florida Ridge.  Much less difficult tasks than you would think would be worth 1000 points.

The NominalDistance parameter is the minimum distance that would still result in a good task worth 1000 points.  NominalDistance ties in with NominalTime, and these two parameters need to be considered together.

That is they are tied together by the expected speed of the fastest pilot.

The suggested distances are not mandatory, as what makes a good minimum task length depends on the terrain, the weather that would normally be expected for the duration of the competition and, quite important, the level of skill that you would expect from the pilots in the competition.

I hope that explains why I think that there is a contradiction between what the authors say and what their formula actually does.

At Quest we need to consider that sometimes we will need to fly against a strong crosswind -because we can't fly East- and therefore we may fly only 40 miles crosswind in 2.5 hours.  In this case, the day will still be a good comp day, in that it is a good day to compare pilot performance, and therefore should be 70-100% valid.

I interpret this to mean that we should consider the actual accomplishments of all the pilots at past Quest meets.  And that the nominal task distance should be set at the average of the distance flown by all those pilots.  This would include days with cross wind tasks.

GAP doesn't deal well with wide variability in the flight conditions from day to day.  It uses an average for all the days of the competition.  Days that are difficult due to conditions, but still a good test of pilot skills, are under valued by the GAP system.  That is one reason that the actual GAP parameters that meet directors have used have been lowered from the recommended values.  Pilots complain when they did well on a hard day but GAP didn't give them their due recognition.


If we use parameters that are too large, the problem that can happen is that 1-2 days in the week of flying will be over-weighted, despite the more average days being good flying days to compare skill/decisions.

And if we use parameters that are too low then there is no differentiation between various days.  Perhaps that is okay, but that is not what the GAP authors indicate should be the case.

The recommended GAP parameters are 50-70 km and 2 hours.  70 km = 43.5 miles, the actual value used in previous Flytec meets.  I recall that two hours was the previous value used in the Flytec meets, although it had no effect on the first day of the 2006 Flytec meet.

On the first day if the past GAP parameters used at the Flytec meet were used for that day it would have been worth a little less than 400 points (instead of 300).  No one complained about the GAP parameters used in the Flytec meets previously.

I agree that the first day was a good test of pilot skills and that pilots should be rewarded handsomely.  But the GAP system and the GAP parameters used in previous Flytec meets didn't do this.  What is the difference now?

You can see their issues at their blogs linked to above.

Oh, by the way, day 4, task 3, 1000 points for the flex wing guys and 974 points for the rigid wing guys.  But, really, do we really care that much?

Discuss GAP at the Oz Report forum

to Table of Contentsto next topic GAP parameters spread sheet

Thu, Apr 20 2006, 5:54:46 am EDT

You can play with GAP parameters yourself

Download it here.  The nominal distance and time validity factors.

Discuss GAP SS at the Oz Report forum

to Table of Contentsto next topic Flytec Results

Thu, Apr 20 2006, 5:57:17 am EDT

Nine rigids in goal within three minutes and seven secondsN28°31.982', W081°50.800', Quest Air(Quest Air)

Task 3:

Place Name Glider Time Total
1 BOTT, Jacques AIR Atos VR 02:35:46 974
2 POSCH, Johann AIR Atos VR 02:36:58 932
3 YOCOM, James AIR Atos VR 02:37:12 917
4 GREGORY, Oliver AIR Atos VX 02:37:15 907
5 BROWN, Russell AIR Atos VR 02:37:59 889
6 TJADEN, Paul AIR Atos VX 02:38:27 877
7 GILES, David AIR Atos V 02:38:58 866
8 LAMB, James AIR Atos VR 02:38:59 862
9 STRAUB, DavisSTRAUB, Davis AIR Atos VR 02:39:03 859

Totals:

Place Name Glider Total
1 POSCH Johann AIR Atos VR 2117
2 STRAUB DavisSTRAUB Davis AIR Atos VR 1945
3 BROWN Russell AIR Atos VR 1892
4 BOTT Jacques AIR Atos VR 1785
5 LAMB James AIR Atos VR 1783
6 GILES David AIR Atos V 1584
7 BUNNER Larry AIR Atos VR 1562
8 YOCOM James AIR Atos VR 1533
9 TJADEN Paul AIR Atos VX 1279
10 GREGORY Oliver AIR Atos VX 1241
11 BOWEN Campbell AIR Atos VX 955
12 DUTT Kevn Aeros Phantom 893
13 GLEASON RonGLEASON Ron AIR Resume C/V 846
14 STUMP MarkSTUMP Mark AIR Atos V 790

The first nine flex wings within three minutes and eleven seconds of each other:

Place Name Glider Nation Time Total
1 BONDARCHUK, OlegOleg Aeros Combat UKR 02:10:36 976
2 HAZLETT, BrettHAZLETT, Brett Moyes LitespeedMoyes Litespeed S4.5 CAN 02:10:39 969
3 HAMILTON, Robin Moyes LitespeedMoyes Litespeed S4 GBR 02:10:43 963
4 DURAND, Jonny Moyes LitespeedMoyes Litespeed S4 AUS 02:11:55 935
5 BLOOM, Phill Moyes LitespeedMoyes Litespeed S4 USA 02:12:51 919
6 WARREN, Curt Moyes LitespeedMoyes Litespeed S4 USA 02:12:53 915
7 MATHURIN, Didier Moyes LitespeedMoyes Litespeed S4 FRA 02:13:37 903
8 BAJEWSKI, Jorg Moyes LitespeedMoyes Litespeed S5 DEU 02:13:38 901
9 PALMARINI, Jean-Franqois Aeros Combat L FRA 02:13:47 896
10 CAUX, Raymond Moyes LitespeedMoyes Litespeed S 3.5 FRA 02:14:36 885

Totals:

Place Name Glider Nation Total
1 BONDARCHUK OlegOleg Aeros Combat UKR 2030
2 HAZLETT BrettHAZLETT Brett Moyes LitespeedMoyes Litespeed S4.5 CAN 2004
3 DURAND Jonny Moyes LitespeedMoyes Litespeed S4 AUS 1922
4 HAMILTON Robin Moyes LitespeedMoyes Litespeed S4 GBR 1769
5 MATHURIN Didier Moyes LitespeedMoyes Litespeed S4 FRA 1745
6 CARTER Kevin Wills Wing TalonTalon II 154 USA 1710
7 DE LA HORIE Geffroy Aeros Combat L FRA 1650
8 WARREN Curt Moyes LitespeedMoyes Litespeed S4 USA 1601
9 BLOOM Phill Moyes LitespeedMoyes Litespeed S4 USA 1572
10 VOLK Glen Moyes LitespeedMoyes Litespeed S4 USA 1570

Discuss Results at the Oz Report forum

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The Oz Report, a near-daily, world wide hang gliding news ezine, with reports on competitions, pilot rankings, political issues, fly-ins, the latest technology, ultralight sailplanes, reader feedback and anything else from within the global HG community worthy of coverage. Hang gliding, paragliding, hang gliders, paragliders, aerotowing, hang glide, paraglide, platform towing, competitions, fly-ins. Hang gliding and paragliding news from around the world, by Davis Straub.